Features of Lease Hunting

In Texas, the schnauzer-size deer that pass as “trophies” are directly the result of not permitting the Game Dept. to do the job of management correctly for many years; and this is the result of lease hunting. There are lot of deer in Texas, and hardly any of them are worth shooting. Landowners who sell deer to hunters aren’t interested in herd quality; all they care about is numbers. Abolish lease hunting, for the betterment of all hunting.

 

I stand by what I said, and as for “facts” they are based on five years’ residence in Texas and first-hand experience with lease hunting. Your arguments against my stand are based on the blind attitude that the game belongs to the landowner individually, not to all hunters collectively. This is so firmly ingrained into the Texas consciousness that nothing seems to eradicate it, but it’s completely untrue. You speak of “adding value” to the game, and of the landowner “losing income” which is exactly what I am talking about:

 

The concept that the landowner owns the game and is entitled to a) its value, and b) its use for his personal benefit. As for not buying the cow when the milk is free, there’s no such thing as a free deer; EVRYONE who buys a hunting license is entitled to a try at one, landowners included; but NOBODY, especially landowners has any more right than any other license holder to those deer. I don’t dispute the right of the landowner to control access to his property. That’s a given, and I absolutely would defend the concept to the death; the catch is that the deer and other native species AREN’T HIS PROPERTY, and by permitting him to charge people to hunt them, he’s stealing the value of those deer from them as really owns it, i.e., hunters collectively.

 

WRT the numbers of deer in Texas, yes, it’s at an all time high; so are deer here in Virginia. The problem is that this has, as you say, come about as a result of years of not shooting does. Do you know any landowners who tell lease hunters “Don’t shoot MY does” even if the game laws say they can? I bet you do; I sure did. The landowner thinks in terms of numbers of deer at so many dollars per head, just like cattle. The game departments (who are properly placed in charge of deer herds) are concerned with management for quality of the herd, maximum health, and improvement of the stock in general.

How to Learn the Basics of Hunting?

Videos and books can help teach the basics, but there’s nothing like actually doing it. The most important thing is to get them gutted so they cool down quickly. Don’t be afraid to give it a try – if you understand what’s needed and the basic procedures, its really hard to do anything “wrong” and it would be much worse to delay.

 

Practice “hunting” deer whenever you can. Whenever I walk in the woods I am “hunting”, even if I don’t have a rifle. Take a camera if you want, but the point is to find deer and get within shooting range, whatever that is for you and your gun. You may want to hunt with someone more experienced your first time out, preferably someone who has experienced success over the years and someone you trust with a loaded gun in their hands.

 

(Over the years I have hunted with a number of friends that I refuse to go with again due to unsafe gun handling, excessive drinking, etc. It’s amazing how some people change in hunting camp.) Whatever, I highly recommend hunting with a companion. Broken bones and snake bites just don’t seem to happen in convenient places or at convenient times. Plus when you get your deer they can help haul it out.

Different Methods for Learning Hunting

If you are going to learn from videos, I suggest you try to watch more than one on any subject. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and you want to find the way you like. Basic answer is that you have to hang out where the hunters are. All states will have some kind of hunting organization. Most will have a lot of them. For example, Minnesota has many hunting groups such as the MN Deers Hunters, The Ruffed Grouse Society, Ducks Unlimited, and on and on.

 

You local paper may post meeting of such groups, or you can contact your department of natural resources. Also, check out the shows that come to your town. Here in MN there are several shows devoted to the outdoors. After the Lawn and Garden show and before the Auto show, we have a pretty good sports show. You can talk to outfitters and usually the local and state organizations will be there too. As it seems that no one where you work nor none of your family hunt, join an organization, get to know the members, make good friends, and join them in a hunt.

 

I certainly do not recomend going out on your own for the first time. It is not really that good of an idea for the experienced hunter either. Trying not to offend the soft hearted and misguided, I would let those that I know that I would like to start deer hunting. I can not believe that there could be no closet deer hunters where you work, your church (if you go), etc. As you mention that you have been target shooting and bird hunting, there has to be some deer hunters in that group.Dressing a deer isn’t much different than dressing a rabbit. Its just a lot bigger and takea a lot longer.

Hunting coyotes in Canada

Some friends of mine in south Georgia (USA) are looking for any area in Canada densely populated with coyotes. Until a few years ago they often hunted packs as large as 50 in number using a combination of dogs and horseback with an ultralight aircraft as a spotter. But in recent years the coyote population has dwindled due not to overhunting but to the pervasive spread of canine parvovirus. So, on their behalf, I would like to know if : 1–are coyotes considered vermin in Canada with no limits ?, 2–do local governments, farmers, etc pay bounties such as US$50 per tail ?, 3– are there any restrictions on night hunting (infra-red) with a two-seat ultralight (pilot in rear, shooter in front) using selective-fire 5.56mm (legally registered with BATF, of course) ?

 

In my opinion hunting anything from an aircraft and shooting at it with a selective fire rifle is NOT fair chase nor is it sporting. It most certainly is NOT humane as there is no way to ensure an accurate shot and a quick kill. I don’t think I even consider this as hunting. And I have never seen a pack of fifty coyotes in my life. The largest pack I have seen is ten to twelve. Usually coyotes are found in pairs or as singles. Packs can be five to ten animals.

 

The best hunting is from November through to the end of February when the weather is minus thirty or colder. Coyote hunting in Kanada can be compared to deer hunting in the US, the main differences being: no calibre and no maximum limits. The hunting is closed for about one or two months a year too, at least here in Quebec. By the way, no select fire here, the all mighty government prohibits it. No infra red for hunting either, and certainly no shooting from any kind vehicle. It really is (or was ) war and it was pest eradication rather than control.

How to Balance Between Predator and Prey?

I suppose one can be rather smug when the balance between predator and prey are in balance and a sense of “fair play” pervades the sport. But our situation was different. We were faced with a skilled predator with no natural enemies (wolf or cougar) that was introduced some time ago to augment the fox hunting. Well, they got more than they bargained for. The coyote became a serious threat to endangered species, reduced most populations of ground-dwelling or ground-nesting creatures and routinely preyed on cats, small dogs, calves, foals, and anything else it could overpower singly or in a pack.

 

The population greatly increased in spite of intense conventional hunting practice (like that practiced in Canada). It was when it began to spread a virulent form of canine rabies and the public health became threatened that the serious eradication methods (by any means necessary),were encouraged. Bounties were paid and nobody cared how you got those tails. By this time the coyote was being regarded by health authorities, farmers, and sportsmen alike as a 15 kg rat with a lot of smarts. Then the coyote began a decline that was attributed to canine parvovirus that is believed by many to have been spread by government game agents.

 

A lot of unvaccinated dogs perished in the process, but it worked, and the public never was aware of what was going on. During this ordeal “trial balloon” attempts to alert the suburb and urban public were met with outcry from misguided dog lovers (most dog owners and ignorant outdoorsman) that see the coyote as an “original” dog rather than vermin. So now were all pumped up with no coyotes to shoot hence the post to this newsgroup. BTW, a GPS is essential in night aerial hunting to be able to retrieve the carcass during the following day.

Various Kinds of Hunting Bullets

I have taken moose with 1 shot kills at distance across a large pond with both my .270 Wby. magnum and my .300 Wby. magnum. In the .270 I used 150gr and in the .300 I used 180gr. Never a problem. I even load them into my sons Mosin Nagant in 7.62X44R. and he has taken 3 deer, all with one shot hits. I’ve used the “regular” bullets in factory loads as well as various premium types. I think there is little benefit from premium bullets in deer hunting, although if they shoot well in your rifle, there is no harm either.

 

Nosler Partitions are an excellent starting point into premium bullets. I’ve used Winchester Fail-Safes for Moose and have found that they give excellent penetration. Many others are not impressed with them. Last year I had Swift A-frames in my .338, but no Moose in my sights for the season. I just wanted to try another bullet, no reason other than that. Generally, the regular bullets will be acceptable in most cases, unless you prefer more penetration. Partitions will not retain their weight as well as some of the other premiums, but they have generally had great accuracy for me.

 

Ballistic Tips are an excellent choice for deer sized game, provided they shoot well in your rifle. If you decide on what “class” of bullet you want (regular or premium) and have they time to test, I’d simply use the most accurate bullet in my rifle. I generally try the premium bullets in my rifles because I enjoy the shooting and they are the cheapest part of a hunt. Often this means the bullets are more than is necessary for deer. The caliber you shoot is also important. I’m much less picky about the bullet when throwing 350g of 45-70 bullet than I am hunting moose with a .30 caliber (and I use larger calibers for moose hunting now).

Hunting and Environmentalism

It’s the short term expedient behavior of politics and economics that have “always ended in human catastrophe” . Does it matter whether Siberia’s forests were raped by political commissars fufilling the “plan’s” quotas in soviet times, or today, by Japan’s market demand? If there was some exotic, introduced, mammal destroying the Russian taiga, and it required the use of hunters’ guns to eliminate them, would not the ARM oppose this?

 

Would not the ARM’s arrogance about “nature taking its course” destroy these forests every bit as effectively as a party apparchatik or robber baron? Yet the ARM would hide behind their inaction and let the destruction of the world’s largest forest be a sign of their “purity”. We see this in California with the ban on hunting and selling burro meat. Or now you want to go there? Are you aware the history of the domestication of the dog (wolf) is intimately tied to them as partners in hunting?It is part of being one with “man’s best friend”, our first domesticated animal. The skill of pack management, it is.

 

“Symbolic” hunting is not just practiced by those high class hound hunters you want to unleash your imaginary class war on. Aboriginal cultures have it too, it’s called “hunting for ceremonial purposes”. The feathers of raptors are obtained by such hunting, though not always. With the exception of the ceremonial Makah whale hunt, (hunting by “cultural necassity”), the ARM won’t speak out against Native Amnerican “trophy hunting”. Ohh no, They must patronize modern aboriginal cultures, I guess in the case of the UK ARM, this would be your modern version of the “white man’s burden”. Old style British colonialism is alive and well. The US ARM isn’t immune to our uniquely historical forms of patronising like this too. We learned well from our mother country as colonial overlords, did we not?

Hunting-Violence or Reverence?

I believe an important distinction needs to be made. Violence has a negative connotation, but hunting and predation can certainly be positive, in fact usually are in Nature. Otherwise, energy doesn’t flow. Again, the assumption killing is bad and destructive. Predation/hunting certainly serve a constructive role in nature. Let’s examine this from the Native Americans’ hunting perspective.

 

They hunted and killed deer, elk, buffalo, etc. What was the effect? I don’t think I would have to try too hard to convince most people that there attitude toward the animals they killed was reverence. In fact, they considered deer to be (abstractly perhaps) their brothers and sisters. This theme runs through all traditional hunting societies doesn’t it? Now what about the American hunter? Many posters here will claim American or “modern hunters” are bad, evil, and destructive.

 

This leads to a relevant topic, but I wonder if ARS/veggies are willing to grant traditional hunting societies as having reverence toward the animals they hunted and killed? Herein lies another interesting connection: even vegetarians can’t get away from killing. In fact, a strong case has been made by Ted Kerasote that a vegetarian requires more kcalories of petroleum than hunters for a given caloric intake (whether meat or vegetarian). And obviously petroleum usage extracts a certain amount of pollution, environmental destruction, etc.

 

I think we have a lot of finnicky people who find meat eating abhorrent for the simple fact that they have the convenience of their own refrig. and the local Safeway store. Most people in this country have never been really hungery, and interestingly, have never been responsible for a single meal in their entire life (whether containing meat or not). I suggest hunting may lead to a deeper reverence for wildlife, and may also have the societal value of “keeping us honest” re: where food and calories comes from…an important fact we are losing sight of in the day of instant and prepacked foods.

Does Hunting Causes Heart Attacks?

By this post I can see that you truely do care about the welfare of hunters. That is excellent advice that before hunting season, especially deer season, a hunter should get that annual physical and get in shape. It’s not just sighting that trophy deer, but also dragging out a couple hundred pounds of dead weight is tough.The researchers found that merely sighting a deer may cause a hunter’s heart rate to soar from 78 beats per minute to 168 bpm.

 

Since the AHA suggests that no form of exercise should cause the heart to beat at more than 75 percent of its maximum rate, and since even the sight of a buck may cause a hunter’s heart to race up to 118 percent of the maximum, the AHA urges all hunters to undergo pre-season conditioning, event those who spend most of their time in tree stands, because hunting from a stand isn’t inherently safer for those at risk than hike-all-day small-game hunting)” he number of retirees who hunt deer has grown so rapidly, the American Heart Association [AHA] recently sponsored a study of the effects of this activity on twenty-five men , seventeen of whom had previously been diagnosed with atherosclerosis, a condition in which fatty plaque closgs the arteries.

Hunting in fluctuating environments

Hunting in moderately fluctuating environments is not necessary if a good complement of effective natural predators is present. The selectivity of natural predators (more correctly stated as the vulnerability of the prey) is a more exact way to retain equilibrium values of residual populations. Hunting can accomplish the same end, but because of its lack of selectivity, a higher kill is required than for natural predation to achieve the same end.

 

Stated another way, natural predators are better at reducing chronic mortality than are human hunters, because the former remove the vulnerable individuals most likely to succomb to chronic mortality factors. Thus there is very high substitutability of predator kills for chronic mortality, while for human hunting, chronic mortality is somewhat more additive, although still substitutable to a considerable extent.

 

“As professionals, wildlife biologists and managers must distinguish between cases where hunting is necessary and where it is not. It is possible to recognize the legitimate interests and necessary roles of human hunters without becoming apologists or advocates for the recreation. Bias toward hunting in situations where hunting is not necessary can only result in loss of credibility. Professional integrity demands that no side of a controversy be given favor on biological grounds that cannot be justified by the biology of the case under review. If hunters are favored because they pay the costs of management through license fees and special taxes, let that be the justification, and not an indefensible position that hunting is necessary in cases where it is not.